I'm gonna give this one more shot, maybe I'll get an answer this time...
I just had an ATK Engines 22RE installed in my 85 4runner (DON'T run
your engine without oil - BAD for the rod bearings). In the first few days,
I noticed an oil leak coming off the bottom of the bell housing, and assumed
it was the new engine. Despite the fact that the dripping goo doesn't smell
like gear oil, I think it's my tranny, as the leak has continued over the
last five days or so, and the engine oil level hasn't dropped. Additionally,
the fluid level in the trans has appeared to drop a bit compared to six
months ago, when last checked.
So it would appear that my input shaft seal is wasted (right?). Can
anybody give me an idea of what to expect for the replacement? Any special
tools or preparation needed? Anything to be extra careful with? blah, blah,
etc... Short of dropping the tranny on my head, I think I can pull this one
off without any screw ups.
Thanks
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:38:42 -0700
From: Jim Brink <toytech@off-road.com>
Subject: Re: 85 input shaft seal replacement - TIPS?
At 02:26 PM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote:
>So it would appear that my input shaft seal is wasted (right?). Can
>anybody give me an idea of what to expect for the replacement? Any special
>tools or preparation needed? Anything to be extra careful with? blah, blah,
>etc... Short of dropping the tranny on my head, I think I can pull this one
>off without any screw ups.
With the exception of tranny/x-fer removal, it's a real no-brainer. You
don't even need to remove the bellhousing. Once the tranny is out, remove
the clutch release bearing and fork. The input seal is contained within the
front bearing retainer which is held on to the transmission case with 8 (?)
bolts. Pull of the retainer, replace the seal and the retainer gasket and
you're set.
Be sure to lube the seal before you install it and clean/lube the input
shaft as well.
Now would be a good time to inspect/replace the clutch components too.
Just use a driver on the stud, pound a hammer into the driver on the end
of the stud. A brass rod works well. This will make the washers just
about fall off.
Byron Davenport
Subject: Re: [Those stupid cone washers]
"Michael G Cowle" wrote:
> Hey, doesanyone know the best way to get those cone washers off
> of the front hubs, so I can get a set of Warn hubs on there.
Hi Mike! I'm in East Aurora so if this doesn't work, give me a call and we
could meet after work. I loosen the nuts and washers but don't take the nuts
all the way off. Then smack the hub, next to the cone washer, in a radial
direction toward the hub. I mean hit it on the locking hub to wheel hub
interface. Not parallel to the stud(axially). This may pop off with little
taps or you may have to wail on them- i know what the salt can do to them...
Since you're replacing them anyway, a bit of abuse is ok. Just don't mess up
the stud or the wheel hub. You leave the nuts on to protect the studs and to
keep you from loosing an eye when they fly off!! Don't know if this helps but
if not, call me, I'm in the book. :)
Subject: Re: Those stupid cone washers
I followed the steps in the Warn installation instructions. Place a socket
slightly larger than the cone washer over it, and smack it with a hammer.
DON'T be bashful. Give it a few GOOD smacks!!! Eventually the washer will
come loose. With the socket covering it, the washers won't fly out. You
may have to replace the socket afterwards though. Funny, I just changed my
94' 4Runner to the Premium Warn Hubs last night.....Good Luck!
Several techniques work here:
* soak them in Liquid Wrench for a few days
* loosen the nuts, back them off so they are just at the ends of the studs
(but not all the way off)
* rap firmly on the ends of the studs with a hammer and brass drift punch
Also:
* rap on the sides of the hub, near the studs
* go to the hardware store and buy a couple of bolts that match the thread
on the two tapped holes in the ADD flanges, put these bolts in these holes
and wrench 'em in so they effectively press the flanges off the hubs. Once
they are off about 1/16" or so, tap them back on, and the cones should come
right out. Sorry, I can't remember the thread spec, but I *think* is a 6 mm
bolt.
- -KLF
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:18:59 -0700
From: Thom Singer <ntsqd@shocking.com>
Subject: Re: Pinion Crush Sleeve vs. Solid Sleeve
Benefit of the solid spacer vs. crush sleave from my own personal experience.
Rebuilt a Ford 8" diff for my Ranchero, all the bearings were shot after 200k+ miles. Happens
that the 9" crush sleave is the same part so I got a new one. Installed it to
the proper pinion preload and got the proper pinion break-away torque on the bench. Set up the
gears with backlash on the high side to get a good pattern (worn gears). Put
about 35k on the rebuilt diff and started hearing bad noises coming from the diff. Pulled it
down to see what was up and install the 3.8:1 gear set (was 3.5:1). Found the
crush sleave had crushed some more under the load of flat towing my 1800 lb. dune buggy. 2700
lb car with a 302 and an AOD, I'd think it should be pretty hard to stress
that part with that combo.
The local driveline/powertrain supplier does a lot of Drag Race 9" set ups with a solid spacer
so I got one and the shims from him. Went thru all the set up again and when
I sold the car it had well over 80k on the solid spacer with no problems.
Could be that the crush sleave I got was defective, and maybe not. It's so little more effort
to know it's right and will stay that way that it's just not worth not doing.
MHO
DRM033@AOL.COM wrote:
> I still don't see the benefits of using the solid spacers vs. the shims, but
> whatever you want to do is your business ;)
- --
TS
Chico, CA
I can't come to work today, the voices said to stay home and clean the guns.
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:43:22 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astrapharmaceuticals.com
Subject: RE: Pinion Crush Sleeve vs. Solid Sleeve
This was posted to the list before at one time...
The spacer part was used in pre 1981 trucks.
Dont bother looking up the part as it probably sez
"substitue part xxx" which is the crush sleeve
Spacer
41231-39010
cost - $24.24 (a crush sleeve is about $8)
uses from 3-5 shims
Shims come in differnt thickness
Shims cost $1.86 each? (thats what my scribble sez)
0.025" 90564-30035
0.030" 90564-30193
0.035" 90564-30194
0.040" 90564-30195
0.045" 90564-30063
You'll need to get 3-5 of each size, set up the diff
and then I guess return the rest of the shims?
As a response to David's? question about is this worth it at all?
Well - it really isnt.
It costs *alot* more to buy the parts
It makes is MUCH harder to set up the diff (keep
adding and subtracting shims)
The only advantage is VERY minor
If the pinion seal starts to leak, you can R&R the
seal without worrying about the SST to take out
the pinion bearing...
The only other advantage is that supposedly the
soild spacer wont "relax" in use.
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:23:42 -0700
From: "Bob Williams" <bob667@lasvegas.net>
Subject: Re: Pinion Crush Sleeve vs. Solid Sleeve
The crush sleeve will give you problems over time, especially if using a
mechanical locker.
If the pinion seal goes, then you have to have the rear-end set up right
again with a new crush sleeve to get the correct settings for the gears.
The old crush sleeve has already been "crushed."
When setting up the third member with a crush sleeve, you use an inch lb.
wrench to finish the job. It has to be done just right.
Yep, the spacers are more of a hassle, but once set up, better and stronger.
And yes, if the pinion seal goes, you just put back what you took out, and
torque the nut to the proper spec.
Also, spacers were made for older 4cyl third members. To get them to fit
6cyl third members, they have to be machined out .040". All Pro Offroad
sells 'em like this.
Bob Williams, Las Vegas, Nevada
Crush collar replacement
> Can you tell me where I can get the hard sleeve to replace the crush
> one.? Ben Lee
Give Marlin a call at: 559-252-7295
He has them in stock.
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:19:50 -0800
From: "Roger Brown, P.E." <rogerb@pisco.engr.sgi.com>
Subject: Re: another pinion question
Ken wrote:
> I need about 3/4" to 1" of lift in the rear of my '94 truck. A
> 1.5" longer shackle is what I was looking into for lift--but
> after reading this thread I began to wonder if I'd be better off
> sticking with a Rancho soft add-a-leaf. What kind of negative
> effects can you experience with the pinion angle off by 3
> degrees?
It depends on how much it is off now.
> Leaks?
No affect
> Increased vibration?
Yes or no, depends on what your angles are currently.
> Axle wrap?
No affect
>From what I've researched, ideally you want the two ends of a double-ujoint
drive shaft within 4 degrees of each other for maximum u-joint life and
minimum vibration. This is actually the operating angle (under load) and not
the angle of the drive shaft to the u-joints themselves (that has its own
limit).
Since the rear pinion moves up under acceleration (unless you have anti-wrap
control on the axle) ideally you set up the static pinion angle to be 1-2
degrees below the transfer case output flange angle. This way, as the pinion
twists up, it comes into a good alignment with the transfer case.
In my case, I stuck on a 1.5" longer shackle and from some simple trig, came
up with needing about a 3 degree shim to compensate for the extra tilt of the
shackle. I never measured the angles at the time. Later, I did measure and
found even with 3 degrees, I was still 1 degree above the transfer case and I
needed to add another 2-3 degrees to get me passed zero and into the desired
range. So I have to conclude that originally my pinion angle was off with the
stock shackle as well. Driving experience also confirmed this, I had drive
line vibration under load (pinion tips up), but it would go away under
coasting conditions (pinion tips down).
So my point is to measure what you have now and see if its OK and how much
will it change with a longer shackle.
I am planning to go with a CV-style rear drive shaft in which case you do want
to tip the pinion up to point directly at the transfer case, so there a longer
shackle works for you.
- --
Roger Brown
Subject: u joints
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-9
From: val_l1@juno.com
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 03:22:22 EDT
barney, i had the same problem, only i knew the solution and was too
cheap to pay for it for awhile. take your drive shaft to a driveline
service shop and have a new one built with chevy u joints. i did and now
my toy is so smooth on the highway its like my wifes lincoln. it only
cost 250.00 and was done in 1 day. the shop i used was driveline service
of san jose, steve is the wizard down there and will set you straight.
the phone number is 286-0162. seriously this is the best way to go. they
balance the shaft also.
val cmat l1
80 sb 4x4 p up
From: "Roger Brown, P.E." <rogerb@pisco.engr.sgi.com>
Subject: Re: driveshaft vibration
"Brian.Gallus (Exchange)" wrote:
> Hmmm... Everything that I've ever read has said that the yokes need to be
> the same on each end. That's what they were at before and that's what they
> are at now.
Sorry, I got my single and double cardans mixed up.
> > Too much grease pumped into the slip joint is not a good
> > idea, it may prevent
> > the the splines from slipping in all the way.
>
> AHA! Last night I took it apart again and checked the u-joint at the tcase.
> Turns out that the u-joint wasn't completely centered (off by about 1/32 of
> an inch, but still had the clips in) so I corrected that. Then greased the
> splines and most of the vibration is gone. Not all, but most. I'm going to
> take it apart again tonight and make sure that I don't have too much grease
> in there (which I wouldn't doubt.)...
That sounds like the problem. Anyway, once its in, take a tape measure and
get the distance between the flanges, top and bottom. The two should be very
close, each 1/16" difference is equal to about 1 degree. Ideally, the bottom
distance should be a bit larger than the top to allow the pinion to tilt up a
bit under load.
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Tamulis <jtamulis@sph.unc.edu>
Subject: Driveshaft questions
Ok, I have a 1985 4Runner with a 4cyl, Automatic.
I am running a Dana 60 Rear end with 4.88 gears and a
detroit locker in the rear. I would like to eventuall
get rid of all driveline vibration, as in my old V8 truck the driveline
vibration ruined the gears, and I just had to have the dana 60 completely
rebuilt $1120 OUCH! (well it has 4.88 and a new detroit soft-locker now)
My question is this: Can I use a CV joint like on the front of a toy
live axle truck on the rear driveshaft? If so, should I make the rear
pinion angle at the dana 60 point straight? and use the CV at whatever?
how hard does everyone think it would be to use a 1985 Front driveshaft
on the back (yes I know it would need to be lengthened) Or should I have
a custom driveshaft made? questions, comments?
Jeff Tamulis
jtamulis@sph.unc.edu
1987 Toyota SR5 4Runner with 5.0 Ford V8 (sold, Sniff sniff)
1985 4Runner Auto/4cyl 3" lift, 33's Dana 60 with a detroit and 4.88s in
the back (front diff not yet done)
I am sure someone already answered this, but here it is again:
Nissan:38323-C6010----->just bought one
Toyota:90404-51026--->(I read from another posting)
Ben
its a 1/8-28 BSP (Brittish Whitworth thread form) any 1/8 pipe fitting from
any import will fit perfectly. I don't know what the Nissan's cost, but it
has to be more than a few fittings from the bone yard would.
Kevin
Checking Pinion Gear
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:24:16 -0800
From: "Roger Brown, P.E." <rogerb@pisco.engr.sgi.com>
Subject: Re: Third Member Setup
Chris Geiger wrote:
> I wish I had known about that when I had my rear end setup. I have to
> periodically take the rear drive shaft off and tighten the rear crush
> sleeve down a little to reduce pinion bearing play. I plan to some day
> replace the rear crush sleeve with a hard sleeve like I have in the
> front.
Any info on how to tell if this needs to be done and how to do it if needed?
- --
Roger Brown http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/4Runner.html
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:43:39 -0800
From: Chris Geiger <cgeiger@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Third Member Setup
When mine gets loose I can grab the rear drive shaft as it exits the
third member and move it up and down a little. About 1/4 turn on the
pinion nut reduces the pinion bearing play. Just drop the drive shaft
and tighten the pinion nut. Check the drag of rear end before and after
the adjustment, it should feel the same. To check the drag lift up the
rear tires and turn the drive shaft by hand. Get the feel of the rear
end before you tighten the nut. If you over tighten this nut you could
destroy the rear end.
> Any info on how to tell if this needs to be done and how to do it if needed?
- --
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://128.111.151.211/offroad
Off-Road.Com Toyota section editor, Album page editor
Marlin case #103, 35" BFG tires, Solid Axle Conversion
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Agustinus Gunawan <aharjadi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What it's like with a detroit softlocker
Even on slippery off camber situation????
I rolled my truck because my front locker pull me the
side when it start losing traction while if i have ARB
or Electric locker I just turn it off. I would not
have extra traction but the front end would still
point straight uphill.
I agree full locker are great on the back because they
are less problematic but for the front manual locker
are still better.
- --- Brandon Miller <brandon@pirate4x4.com> wrote:
> maybe on the road but nuttin beats a full locker off
> road..
Reply:
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:13:22 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller" <brandon@pirate4x4.com>
Subject: Re: What it's like with a detroit softlocker
nah, I would not even want one...
unlock a hub then - I have no desire for a "manual" locker - you just need
to adjust your driving - I have been in some situations that have been
pretty hairy but I would never give up my full lockers..
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:37:47 -0600
From: "Scott Ellinger" <ellinger@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Would it work
> Come to obstruction, find no grip. Have spotter check to see which wheel is
> spinning, lock that wheel on. Move off, release line lock when free.
> Too simple to work?
Yes, too simple to work. Sorry.
I had a turn brake in my truck for some time, and while it would work
in some situations (wheel totally off the ground, for an extended
distance) it doesn't work near as well as you might like, and it does
not work at all (IMHO) on loose or slick terrain.
Here's why:
When you slow/lock the spinning wheel, it sends the power to the
other one. But when the (now-stopped) spinning wheel regains
traction, it stops the truck. Now, unless you're Superman-quick,
the once-tractive tire loses its traction, and you're about 1/2" from
where you were before, still spinning a tire. In order to keep your
forward progress, you've got to be back and forth on the brake
creation faster than any human can... I tried this.
Because in order to make forward progress with one of these
devices, you have to inhibit forward progress, it ends up that you
fight yourself the whole way. That's why it's worthwhile to get a
locker instead: even if a tire is spinning, as long as one has
traction, *both* are driving forwards, and it doesn't matter if
neither one has enough traction to move the truck, as long as
both *combined* do. With a turn brake (individual side to side
control of brakes on one axle) one tire has to have the traction
to (a) move the truck, *and* (b) overcome the drag of the other
tire on that axle.
Turn brakes do shine in high speed situations, but I seem to
recall a couple of cops on the list who might frown on me
explaining how to go *faster* on a dirt road than is safe, sane,
or legal... by using the brakes. :)
- --scott ellinger@frii.com
http://www.rockstomper.com
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 16:23:00 -0700
From: Thom Singer <ntsqd@shocking.com>
Subject: Re: Toyota 4x4 digest: V2 #941
Never could afford turning brakes while I was seriously
campaigning the DB off road but several of the guys I went
with had them. With the VW t/a you have two choices: ARB (if
you have the 090 trans) or open. Steering brakes work great
for biasing the power. They do tend to load the backing
plates rather hard. I can't explain it but we had one
failure in the middle of excuting a full power donut. It
folded the backing plate. They do turn tight though. A U
turn in less than the DB's 80" wheel base.
- --
TS
Chico, CA
Where are we going ? And why am I in this hand basket ?
Subject: RE project 3
> Project 3:
>
> LockRight locker in rear. Think I'll let the 4x4 shop around here do that
> one...quoted me about $229 for the locker, $125 for labor and $35 for gear
> oil (too bad I just drained and refilled my diff last week).
$125 is to much to pay for the swap. If you have a decent set of tools and a
reasonable inclination, you can do this. Try to have someone there to help,
at least to lift the 3rd member out and back in. And see if you can get Dave
Buchanon to bring over his air tool setup (Thanks again Dave!).
I have done a few in my day and here is what I learned
the money you save will pay for part of your first mistake
This won't be your last time doing it and the savings will pass the
mistakes soon
the mistakes I made
Put blue loctite on all bolts, I had 1 beering cap come loose,and a ring
gear bolt.
don't forget to stake the compamion flange nut, and put rtv on the splines
and the carrier on the roll pin
correct me if I'm wrong
Paul Elbisser pres Rice on the Rocks TLCA of Cincinnati Ohio
> I'm going to swap out the oil pan on my 1998 Tacoma. I have the new oil
> pan but not an ail pan gasket. I ordered the part numbers suggested by the
> friend of a friend who is a Toyota tech. I got a small gasket for the
> pickup tube so I might have gotten a part number wrong in transit. I will
> need a new oil pan gasket, won't I?
Nope, it uses FIPG, Toyota-speak for Formed In Place Gasket (liquid
sealer). Go down to your local dealer and ask them for the black FIPG
for oil pans, valve covers, etc.
- --
Jim Brink, Manhattan Beach, CA toytech@off-road.com
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:56:28 -0400
From: djstracher@bbn.com
Subject: Re: part number?
Tim --
part #: 43532-60010
This is for the o-ring between the selector
knob and the cap.
It's square in cross-section if I remember
correctly and probably one of
the reasons a regular o-ring isn't working
too well.
Dave Stracher
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:27:37 -0600
From: "Scott Ellinger" <ellinger@frii.com>
Subject: Re: More on Marfields/birfields
(long)
> All this has got me thinking, would the
930 CV fit in there ? They would
> require custom axles, but we're
approaching them already. Scott E, have
> you by chance looked at this ?
Not owning a solid axle Toy, I haven't
looked into this one. The 930
uses 28-spline Ford axle shafts (actually
slightly smaller than the 30
spline Toy shafts) but in my experience,
Moser shafts are plenty
strong in 28-spline applications, with V8
power, 36's, and 123:1
crawl.
If somebody wants to send me a Birfield, I
can compare the two. I
don't need an intact one; broken is
fine. :)
The 930 has an outer diameter of
approximately 4 1/4"; if that's too
large, then that answers it right off.
One catch is that a 930 is a pancake style
joint. That means that
it requires a flange to bolt onto from one
side, and then the axle
splines fit into the other. That would mean, for the straight axle
applications, you'd have to have a flanged
stub or inner axle, and
with the double-splined axle side clipped
into the 930, you'd have
to bolt it onto the flanged axle.
Another minor downside is that this would be
a very expensive
option; even if it's stronger than stock, or
even stronger than a
Marfield, I'm probably not going to attempt
to actually produce a
setup like I've just described... custom
axles are $300 a pair, and
since the above arrangement requires four
axles ($600) and two
930's ($75 each) plus other incidental
stuff, this pushes way too
close to the cost of a Dana 60 for me to try
a full assembly.
-
--scott
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:45:39 -0700
From: "Patrick Pevey"
<pvgren@reno.quik.com>
Subject: Rear axle broke on vacation, nicked
w/torch
Back in January I was doing the rear TSM
disk brake swap, so at the same
time I decided to replace the wheel bearings
while the backing plate was
removed.
Not having a press or the SST to do the work I had Toyota do it
for me.
After the work was finished I asked for the old parts and followed
the person back to discover they don?t have
the SST and used a torch to cut
the collars. I asked him if that was tricky to do and he said, no I do it
like this all the time. I was on vacation and in Jasper Canada, made
a
U-turn to look at a black bear sleeping up a
tree. Then drove away slowly
and wham the rear axle broke. It had broke at the collar at the c-clip.
After three days camped in a parking lot and
bone yard axle at $192.49
(131.53us) I was back on the road. I went back to Toyota explained what had
happed got two complete sets brand new and
put them in the truck Now they
are waiting for this ?expert? metal person
to inspect them so I can settle
up on the bill. Most likely they will pay for the broken side and prorate
the other.
I showed the brake to three people and they all said torch
nicked it.
I did find out that the same axle and bearing is in the Toyota
mini motor homes. So if you can do the work yourself do it because Toyota
doesn?t
always have the SST to do the job.
Patrick Pevey pvgren@reno.quik.com
83toy p/u(PVSTOY)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:22:40 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
<geiger@off-road.com>
Subject: Re: More on Marfields/birfields
(long)
>
has Marlin
> thought about a reduction in the
diameter of the balls (rollers in the joint
> -sorry for lack of a better term)?
Yes Marlin vary carefully considered the
ball size. He and an engineer
considered larger and smaller balls. Much
time was spent on this. The
larger the ball the more it will spread out
the load but the outer shell
would need to be thinner. Smaller balls
would not be able to take as
much of a load and may flatten out under
extreme loads. Marlin feels the
stock ball size and cage are just right and
so is using new factory
balls and cages purchased from Toyota on the
new joints.
The stock Birfield joints fails one of two
ways. The shell splits open
and the joint comes apart or the shell
cracks and then the inner cage
fails. Either way the problem is caused by
the expansion of the outer
shell, this is where Marlin concentrates his
efforts.
Marlin's first joints had a ring welded to
the end of a stock joint but
do to some inconsistencies in welding some
joints came out very strong
and others were weaker than stock. This new
design that he is now
testing has a shell that is as large as
possible and is made from a
single cast piece, providing much more
support for and limiting
expansion of the balls. The test units he is
currently working with were
intentionally made as large as possible.
Many hours were spent test
fitting and taking off only what was
absolutely necessary so that the
joint can be as large as possible. The cast
shell and special alloy
design will ensure consistent performance of
all production joints.
Some failures of the front right axle
occurred when used with the
original Marfields, this was because of the
increased strength of the
joint. For some people this may continue to
act as a safety fuse for the
front end when using the new joint. For
those that want even more
strength, Marlin is working on new
replacement axles. These new axles
will be larger in diameter and be made from
a stronger steel, just like
axles used in race applications. Do to the
longer length of the left
side shaft (allowing for more twist and
flexibility) it may only be
necessary to replace the right side shaft
with the stronger unit. Marlin
is also considering new replacement rear
shafts as well. All though rear
shaft failure is rare it does happen
occasionally (I hate when I do
that). The cost of used rear shafts from
junk yards is getting as high
as $90 per axle out here in California. This
is getting close to the
cost of making high quality shafts that are
far superior to the stock
units for what might turn out to be only a
few dollars more than a
rusted used shaft.
- --
Chris Geiger
http://www.off-road.com/~geiger
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:01:45 -0800
From: "ECVSlick" <ECVSlick@softcom.net>
Subject: RE: Front axle rebuild
I have two tips I can offer here.. You'll want to pull the axles out of the
birfields to properly clean & relube them both inside & out. They come
apart real easy IF you use the right hammer / punch combo. The punch
material must be malleable (service manuals usually recommend brass).
However, what I've found works best is a 1 inch square aluminum rod about a
foot long struck with a 2.5 lb deadblow (shot-filled / rubber faced) hammer,
it does the trick in 3 to 4 pops. You will want to chuck the axle in a vise
and rotate the joint where you can strike the flat of the bearing cage. I
hit it twice on one side and if it moves a little, the third shot removes
it. Otherwise, re-chuck the axle 180 degrees and hit it a couple more
times.
Kingpin bearing races are driven out through the opposite race opening.
There are two notches where you rest a punch against the inner side of the
race. I use a steel punch for this. Do NOT wail on them! Use many light
but firm taps alternating to the other notch ever couple of shots or so. It
will take a while but be patient, they come out easy UNLESS you get the race
cocked in the recess. If you choose Timken replacements, don't forget to
grind the "race notches" deeper as Timkens are a steeper taper than OEM
bearings. The Timken race has less overhang and without the deeper notch,
the only way to remove the race is to weld a washer in the middle and pound
out from the other side.
Oh, one more thing, I like using a "Betty Crocker" type rubber cake spatula
for filling the knuckles with grease (buy at least a gallon bucket!) after
the axles are back in. Use the small skinny one to work the grease all the
way behind the birfield to a touch over 3/4 capacity. Have LOTS of shop
rags on hand for this job.
Slick
Birdfield
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:34:43 EDT
From: DRM033@AOL.COM
Subject: Replacement birfields
Rocky at Essentially Off Road just told me they now have replacement
birfields available. These are new stock replacments, and measure 50
thousandths over stock in outer diameter. Rocky is selling them for $100 per
birfield, and that includes clips to attach them to the inner shafts. They
each come in a sealed bag and a nice storage box.
If you are interested, contact Essentially Off Road @ 615.893.8814
http://www.essentiallyoffroad.com
If anyone wants, i can get a picture of one of them when I go by EOR's shop
Wednesday...
David
DRM033@aol.com
http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:23:34 -0400
From: "Will and Sumiko" <willmiko@roava.net>
Subject: Re: Marfields or Newfields
First a disclaimer, I am friends with George Stuckey of CV-Ulimited, the
company that is manufacturing the Newfield. No financial affiliation, just
a fellow trail rider.
Now, my report:
I have run a set of Newfields on my FJ40 through the Rubithon (both
directions and on the double locker run - nothing bypassed and rarely slowed
down for!), every trail at Tellico, and most recently through the Hummer
Trails. Never a problem with them!
The Newfield is a completely new manufactured unit. It is NOT a modifed
older joint. CV unlimited has beefed up the weak areas considerably, and
changed the alloy of the outer shell. The NEW Marfields are Newfields, the
OLD Marfields were birfields with rings welded on.
If you're gonna spend the money, get Newfields.
Will
Will & Sumiko www.roava.net/~willnsumiko
'68 FJ40 -SO, 302, NP435 4w discs, 8274, ARB's,
'91 FJ80 ARB bar & Warn HS9500I
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:35:02 -0800
From: Thom Singer <ntsqd@shocking.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with rear axle studs shearing off
Proper design requires that the drive take place btwn the two faces
clamped together. It isn't the shear strength of the flywheel bolts that
transfers the power, it's the friction btwn the end of the crank and the
flywheel created by the clamping load of the bolts. The bolts are in
tension only. The two dowel pins on the front hub should only be doing
location duty, not shear loading duty. If they are in shear, you're in
trouble. Even if the material used in the pins is 100,000 psi tensile
strength you'll shear them off at about 4,400 pounds force. I'm ignoring
the additional shear strength of the studs with that number, but again,
they should not be in shear either. (For those of you used to using SI
units, sorry for the stupid units.) The cone washers, as I understand
them, are not for shear loads, but rather an ingenious (infamous ?)
method for maintaining the tensile loading of the studs and insuring
that the nuts do not back off like those on Jeep hubs always do. They
possibly also will act as a wedge to increase the clamping force in the
event that a stud is slightly lose. I wouldn't rely on that though.
I'd venture that the two surfaces are buggered up and not seating flat.
Remove the studs and clean everything. Then take some valve lapping
compound and lap the drive plate to the hub. It may require several
different grits to speed up the process or you may have to start with a
file. You want 100 % contact. You can check for that with layout dye or
a Magic Marker. When you think you've got 100% contact, cover one
surface with the dye or marker and spin the other part against it. The
high points will rub off showing you the low points. Check both parts to
be sure. If you get a really smooth finish you shouldn't need any gasket
or goop btwn the parts. I'd use a little Hylomar just to be sure. Make
sure the studs, cone washers, and nuts are clean, and rust and burr
free. Assemble them with a little lubrication (anti-sieze seems a good
choice) and torque to the factory value.
Brian Wiencek wrote:
>
> > >I keep shearing the rear axle studs of, leaving me with no drive at
> > >the rear end. It is running a rear ARB locker, with 33x12.5 BFG
> > >muddies.
> >
> > By the sounds of it you have the full floater axle. Even if you had the ARB
> > on on the road that would not be sheering the studs. A few things come to
> > mind, the rims , wheel nuts and the torque applied to the studs. Fist check
> > that your wheelnuts match your rims. Generally the tapered nuts are on the
> > steel rims but not allways. The flat ones are used to prevent the alloy rims
> > deforming and cracking when the nuts are over tightened.
> <<SNIP>>
>
> I think he was talking he is shearing the small (6mm?) studs that hold the
> drive plate to the 'hub' face. I am not familiar with this particular
> setup, but if it's at all like the front hubs then there are 2 hardened
> steel pins that provide the 'shear' strength - make sure that these are
> installed - they should take most of the torque, the studs help clamp &
> hold the axle in.
- --
TS
Chico, CA
Ours go to eleven.
Posted by Gadget on June 29, 1999 at 08:02:12:
In Reply to: Vibration posted by Leonard Fernandez on June 29, 1999 at 06:25:50:
I had a two-year war with Toyota over a vibration problem and I took them to arbitration and won,
well kind of. Toyota fought me every step of the way stating that the sever vibration is normal. I
ended up fixing it my self by replacing the worst of the two wheels, and the arbitrator ordered
Toyota to reimburse me for my expenses and it took another year of constant battling to get the
check out of them.
Well during this war I learned a lot of things. The most important is that I will never buy another
Toyota ever again because their customer service is the worst in the world. I also learn that Toyota
has some serious flaws in their quality control.
I have met several experts in tracking down vibration problems and they all say that Toyota wheels
are about the worst in the industry. They all say that all most all vibration problems with Toyotas can
be traced to the wheels. Basically they can’t seem to make them round.
From everything that I have learned I can be almost certain that your problem is that the dealer is not
using the proper method in balancing the wheels. The design of the wheels used on the 4Runner are
different than most. They are not “hub centric” meaning the hole in the middle of the wheel is not in
the exact center. You will never ever get the wheel properly balanced using normal tire balancing
equipment. Normal tire balancing equipment uses the center hole to mount the wheel to the
tire-balancing machine.
The Toyota wheels used on the 4Runner are “lug centric.” This means that the lugs are the center of
the wheel and the lugs must be used to balance the wheels. To do this a special adapter that engages
the wheel lug holes must be use in conjunction with a special back side forcing cone to properly
mount the wheel to the tire balancing machine.
Haweka makes the adapters and they are made in Germany. The part numbers for the adapters for
a tire-balancing machine that uses a 40mm shaft is:
251-613-409 Flange plate
15A-400-012 Cone
You can get them from Ferguson Corporation in Baltimore MD (410) 467-8980 and will cost just
under $500.
If your truck was riding smooth before your dealer screwed with it and now it vibrates your dealer is
responsible for fixing it. Ask them if they followed the proper procedure and used the Haweka
adapters. If they say that I do not know what I am talking about tell them to review Toyota
Technical Service Bulletin number SU002-96. This bulletin makes it very clear that these adapters
must be used to balance the wheels on the 4Runner. If they say that they used them, simply ask to
see the adapters. I’ll bet they do not have them. I have found that Toyota service personnel lie all the
time.
If you are near the DC area let me know. I have a set of these adapters and the shop down the
street from me has a Hunter DSP9000 tire balance machine that they fit perfectly.
This will properly balance the tires. Toyota does have a big problem with making the wheels round.
Now matter how well they are balanced, the truck will not ride smooth if the wheels are out of
round. The only way to fix that kind of wheel problem is to replace the wheels.
Using the adapters I only have one weight on each of my wheels. How many weights do you have
on each of your wheels?
Gadget
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 15:08:47 -0400
From: "Alexandre Brousseau" <alexandre@securenet.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Gear woes
> It was a Richmond gear - supposedly good stuff.
Do Richmond really have a good rep in the Toy crowd?
I'm from the Suzuki crowd and Richmond makes the worse crap available out
there... I'd rather take a grinder and make a set myself than buy that crap.
You wouldn't believe how many poeple I talked to that broke several of them
before switching to Suzuki Sidekick gears. I have yet to hear about someone
breaking 'kick gears without extreme abuse...
Oh and Richmonds have no warranty whatsoever if you use them off-road :)
Alex.
Gears
Richmond Gear R&P Review
By: Peter Szalay 7/9/98 - szalay@earthlink.net
Supplier: Richmond Gear
Price: Approximately $250
Pros: Has reputation for being a strong gear set. Available at a reasonable cost.
Cons: Quality control at Richmond Gear, and attitude of customer service representative is abysmal. They replaced a
noisy set of new 4.56 gears under warranty for me. The replacement set had very little thread in the ring gear
mounting holes, and the bolts could not even be torqued to 20 lb-ft , let alone their recommended torque of 55 lb-ft.
Another replacement set was sent to me, and this set had an oversize pinion shaft diameter, preventing assembly of
the bearing onto the shaft. Richmond Gear would not send me another set under warranty, so I sold the gear sets at a
big loss. I could not return them to the original retailer, because they went out of business. Overall, the quality of
Richmond Gear is not up to that of Toyota. As some evidence of this, consider that Toyota recommends a torque of
71 lb-ft on the bolts attaching the ring gear to the carrier. If you try this with the Richmond gear, you will strip the
threads in the gear, which is why Richmond Gear lowers the torque to 55 ft-lb.
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:05:27 EDT
From: DRM033@AOL.COM
Subject: Re:
brandon@pirate4x4.com writes:
> along those lines what should I pay for a v6 locker (detroit), gears
> (richmond), all new bearings and seals (timken or other quality brand).
> All I have is an empty carrier to bring in to have built up...
I don't know the V6 part prices off the top of my head, but I do know the V6
gears are MUCH more expensive. Give Rocky at Essentially Off Road a call
(615-893-8814) and he will get you prices. He sells US Gears and Timken full
setup kits...
BTW... Why Richmond gears?
Sorry to the list if it seems like I am advertising for EOR - it is just that
they have the lowest prices on most thing I have seen - I used to preach
about Rosser back when they had the lowest prices on lockers too :)
David
DRM033@aol.com
http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:32:22 -0700
From: "Kauth, Alan" <akauth@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: A/T oil temp light
You'll definitely need to flush all that fluid out as best you can
(brown and burnt is not good!!). The best way is with a T-tek flush at
a jiffy lube since it will fully flush the transmission. The next best
way is two trans fluid changes fairly close together (no need to change
the filter on the second change) since you can only change half of the
fluid at a time. 4+ quarts or so will stay in the Torque converter.
Your trans fluid probably just foamed up and went out the overflow. At
those speeds on a hill you kind of abused the engine/trans. Hopefully
you didn't varnish anything up!!
If your aren't running synthetic fluid. Then you should put some
lubeguard in the fluid (http://www.teleport.com/~txchange/lubegard.htm).
(Lubeguard is semi-mandatory if a good shop rebuilds your tran. They'll
put it in on the first fill.) You can get it from any decent auto
place. As far as I know it's the only additive that transmission shops
endorse (by the way, that last link is one of the largest transmission
exchanges). Lubeguard is a replacement for whale oil which can't be
used anymore (for obvious reasons). That stuff really works well
(lubeguard and whale oil both).
A place to look for high temp capable trans fluid is Redline hi temp
ATF. It's more high temp than their regular synthetic. It will go 70
degrees higher than normal synthetic fluid. The hotter you get trans
fluid the more likely it will varnish and leave deposits. Redline
makes superior products.
This stuff costs a fortune, but the best fluid you can put in your trans
is this for general use (or hi temp Redline if you really want to cook
the trans regularly):
http://www.eliteone.com/amsoil/trans.htm
Alan
From: owner-toy4x4@tlca.org [mailto:owner-toy4x4@tlca.org]On Behalf Of
david meador
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:18 PM
To: TOY4X4@moab.off-road.com
Subject: Marlin crawler with CV driveshaft
I just installed a Marlin Crawler dual case in my 85 4Runner, and
because I run a CV in my rear driveshaft I have the clearance problem at
the cross member behind the transfer case. My first thought was to notch
it and weld a piece of C-channel in it but I am thinking since I have a
two inch body lift I could cut it away from the frame move it up two
inches and weld back in place. Since the gas tank is mounted to this
cross member I will need to raise the rear of the tank also which is
simple. This way I can kill two birds with one stone. Any comments?
Dave Meador
85 & 95 4Runner
84 SR5 4X4 PU
TLCA #8455
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:54:28 -0700
From: "Bob Williams" <bob667hsd@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Marlin crawler with CV driveshaft
I had that same problem. Marlin took an air hammer and just worked it over
until there was enough clearance. I suppose heating and hammering would
accomplish the same thing, or as you suggested, C-channel. I had to do sort
of the same thing to the lower crossmember for the front driveshaft when I
put in the solid axle on my 4Runner. It's held up ok.
Bob Williams, Las Vegas, Nevada
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:39:28 -0700
From: "Chris Geiger" <geiger@tecate.off-road.com>
Subject: Re: Marlin crawler with CV driveshaft
I have seen a simple solution to. Just notch out a little bit of the collar,
weld in some plate if you want and your done.
- --
Chris Geiger
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:02:27 -0700
From: Mike Dixon <miked@coffeecup.com>
Subject: Re: Marlin crawler with CV driveshaft
I used to run a CV in mine, and I just dropped the t-case on the custom
mount. I've since gone to a standard (no CV) driveshaft and don't have any
problems with U-Joints or vibration. But like Chris said, just notch the
cross-member and put a plate in it.
Date: (No, or invalid, date.)
From: "Scott Ellinger" <ellinger@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Twinstick transfer case
> Do you have a web page or can you give more details about your
twinstick
> transfer case?
I do have a website, it's at http://www.frii.com/~ellinger but it does
not
have any twinstick info on it as yet.
So the info is here...
The standard Toyota transfer case has a high-neutral-low shift rail, on
the driver's side, and a front driveshaft engage/disengage rail on the
passenger side (AKA the 4WD rail, but all it does is couple and un-
couple the front output)
Because of the way the J-shift works stock, from 2WD, you pull
back to get to 4WD. Then that
little jog to the passenger side gets
you into using the other shift rail, and pushing forward gets you to
neutral, and then to low. The
J-shift prevents a single shifter from
actuating both rails at the same time.
There is an interlock pin in the shift mechanism, back inside the case,
that prevents the range rail from moving anytime the drive rail is in the
2WD position. Removing this pin
allows use of 2WD low, but the
stock shifter can't get there anyway, because it was designed for the
J-shift pattern.
Since I wanted able to use 2WD low, I made a new shifter that has
two levers instead of one, and each shifter is used on just its side
and just its rail. The driver
side lever goes high-neutral-low, and the
passenger side lever 2-4. Since
the interlock pin was (intentionally)
left out of my transfer case, I can move the two independently, and
use 2 or 4 high, as well as 2 or 4 low.
Removing the interlock pin requires fairly substantial dismantling of
the transfer case, or in mine, I simply asked Marlin to leave the pin
out when he rebuilt the case with the 4.7 gearset.
The different shifter is a bolt-on deal, but I don't have a working
boot or sealing arrangement for it.
As best I can tell, it doesn't
much matter, but it is ugly compared to the stock arrangement. My
brother Brian spent a bit more time fine-tuning the cosmetic boot
and seal issues, and has a better looking arrangement, but I don't
know if he's reading this or bothering to market it anyway.
- --scott
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:05:07 EDT
From: DRM033@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Marlin's customer service (Not Good)
tnbyoder@flash.net writes:
> I have been waiting for a couple of low profile drain plugs from Marlin
> for over six weeks.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me? How should I handle this?
Go straight to Toyota. I thin kthey are like $1.70 each, and the magnets are
an extra $.50 - didn't they some from Camry's or something?
David
DRM033@aol.com
http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:24:22 -0600
From: "David Eggleston" <toy283@mho.net>
Subject: Re: Marlin's customer service (Not Good)
> I have been waiting for a couple of low profile drain plugs from Marlin
> for over six weeks. I called two weeks after I first ordered them, and
> was told that they were out of stock, but would be in "very soon", and
> not to worry. I have left numerous messages for a return phone call in
> the last week, but not one of them have been returned. I know this order
> is not high on his list of priorities, ($4 each) but I have spent
> thousands of dollars with him in the past, and feel really put out. I
> also noticed that he waisted no time charging my credit card.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me? How should I handle this?
>
> Thanks all
>
> TY
>
20/20 hindsight here. You could've got these plugs from your friendly(?)
neighborhood Toyota dealer. Auto trans drainplug from a 1st gen Camry (p/n
90341-18016), run about $1.80 or so. Some of these have had the magnets,
some haven't.... don't ask me why on that one. If not, I picked up a pack of
ten 1/2" round magnets for about a buck and a half at the hardware store. A
little JB weld and voila, less than $2 each and no waiting.
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:26:01 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astrapharmaceuticals.com
Subject: Downey and NWOR "HD" Clutches
It seems everyone has their own opinions on clutches...
Last I checked (I really dont read the NWOR catalog anymore)
NWOR sold the Centerforce
Downey sold a "house brand" superclutch
I recall from previous posts that it was a reboxed
clutch from another company
LC sells a "house brand" super clutch as well
The "ultra torque" option comes with a "heavier" steel
flywheel.
Last I checked, both Downey and NWOR send out a
"centerforce" flywheel.
LC Engineering makes their own flywheel - its a little
bit cheaper than the Centerforce.
Ive used the following clutches in my daily driver 4Runner.
OEM (~100K)
LUK (~90K)
Centerforce Dual with Heavy Flywheel (~75K due to tranny leak)
BorgWarner OEM "PowerBrute" (~60K - replaced because I had the
tranny out due to a blown 5th gear)
Centerforce Dual with LC Heavy flywheel (current)
IMHO - OEM works OK for road use and the HD flywheels are
nice for "torque". If yer on a budget - the BorgWarner
isnt too bad (thats why I put it in) - but do get the flywhee
resurfaced. Its a two step cut. I think it cost me $60+
to get "cut"... too much $$ from what I recall others
tellimg me.
The Centerforce HD flywheel uses two dowels, the OEM uses
three dowels. I lost a dowel on my Centerforce flywheel.
A real PITA as it made cement mixer noises occasionally
and then would jam in the clutch cover making shifting
into first a bear. I sold the used flywheel to Bud? - I dunno
if he's had any luck with it -
The LC HD flywheel uses three dowels.
The following tools IMHO are mandatory
17mm 1/2" drive
19mm 1/2" drive
LONG (18"+) 1/2 drive extension
(a 3/8 entension bar winds up like a torsion bar!)
1/2" drive breaker bar
A *good* tranny jack makes life easier.
I now have a *nice* lincoln hydrulic tranny
jack. The previous $99 screw type tranny jack fell
over (with the trans strapped to it) and missed
my leg by inches. I decided I liked skiing too
much to mangle my knees - I shelled out $$$$ for the
Lincoln... its SWEET for putting the tranny in!
The following SSTs are cool - but not necessary
flywheel turner
pilot bearing remover
pilot bearing installer
Ewong
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 09:44:39 -0600
From: "David Eggleston" <toy283@mho.net>
Subject: Re: Strength of Toyota Rear Axle
>
> First, I understand that you are talking 8" ring gear in the
> Toyota over the 9" in a Ford. I assume that is the
> contributing factor to the increased strength of the Ford
> axle? I also understand that numerically higher gears in
> the axle are weaker. Right now I am looking at 32" tires
> and appropriate gearing. Will this give a stock axle enough
> of a chance of surviving?
>
While there is only an inch of difference in diameter, the thickness of the
ring gear and overall size of the pinion of a 9" is considerably more.
Although I haven't weighed them, I would bet that the 9" components weigh at
least twice what their 8" counterparts do maybe three times as much. The
gear teeth are considerably more beefy as well. I am in the process of a 9"
rear swap and have the opportunity to compare firsthand with comparable gear
ratios, my 9" is going to be 4.11 to the Toyotas 4.10. In reality though, I
have had only one ring & pinion detonation with the stock rearend and V8
power. This was running 38.5's and a serious application of power combined
with a hard right turn (pulling out of a parking lot :-) With 32's you may
never have any difficulties with the drivetrain. My setup involves the use
of an automatic trans though. This may relieve a bit of the stresses on a
rear axle compared to a manual. Your setup is very comparable to Scott
Ellinger's and we all know that he has broken everything there is to break.
He is also running larger tires (36's) and demands a whole lot from his
truck on the trail.
> Second, there have been numerous discussions on modifying
> the axle to be of full-floating design. How much strength
> does this actually add to an axle? Would a full-floating
> Toyota axle be able to compare to a Ford 9"? Or is it still
> a question of the smaller ring gear and would that still be
> the failure point?
>
The smaller ring gear is still the fail point. Haven't heard of the axle
shafts themselves being a problem as they are comparable in size to Dana
60's.
> Third, if I were to start swapping axles, what would the
> consensus be on appropriate replacements? Just replace the
> rear with a Ford 9"? Replace the front with something else
> as well? Ford? Dana?
>
I went Ford 9" because:
1.) It was given to me for free, although I have since spent many dollars
configuring it to my specs.
2.) I like the 3rd member design. It makes working on the diff should there
be problems so much simpler. If I hadn't been given the axle for free, I
still probably would have gone this route.
I haven't decided my course of action for the front axle yet. There are
several options being considered:
1.) Beef up the existing axle with V6 diff and Marfields and hope for the
best. This option is most desireable if I decide to keep the diff open which
is very possible. If I spend the money on a LSD or locker, I don't want to
bet on the stock axle holding up.
2.) Dana 44. Arguable strength increases in the u-joints over the
birfields/Marfields, but a stronger differential.
3.) Dana 44/Ford 9" hybrid. Gains some of the benefits of the 3rd member
design although interchangeability with the rear won't be one of them. I
would have to use a 28-spline carrier to mate up with the D44 axle shafts
whereas my rear is the much thicker 31-spline. Once again, there is the
questionable improvement of the u-joints.
4.) Dana 44/60 hybrid. The strength improvements of the D60 ujoints and
axles is undeniable. Cost of the Dana 60 components becomes an issue.
5.) D44/60/9" hybrid. The best option, but the most expensive. 31-spline 9"
center section, Dana 60 axles and ujoints, Dana 44 hubs. The machinist I
used for the housing work on my rear has done a few hybrid axles using 9"
and D44 and or D60s. These have all been for full-size trucks and he is
unsure if the slightly narrower width I would be looking for is workable. I
want to keep my axle widths in the 58-60" range (my rear is 59-5/8").
> Finally, a lot of people are running the stock axles with
> various forms of the Marlin. I would think that if the
> stock axles had significant weaknesses, the increased torque
> available behind a Marlin setup would be killing axles right
> and left. Or is this scenario completely different?
>
Scott went to a Marlin 4.7 case but this was after the rear axle was swapped
out. To my knowledge he has had no problems with the 9" rear combined with a
Marlin, but that's not exactly an answer to your question.
> The truck is not going to be a trail only vehicle. Chances
> are that it will have to be a daily driver to at least some
> extent. I realize that I will be sacrificing a certain
> amount of off-road ability to retain on-road manners and am
> really looking at the V8 for increased driveability (ie: be
> able to haul or tow without always being in third gear - not
> 0 to 60 times or stoplight races). I would appreciate any
> insight that anyone may be able to provide me.
>
When I first did the engine swap on mine, it was a daily driver. Since then
I have found more economical means of getting to work. The driveability is
nice but the fuel economy kinda sucks. Most people I've talked with get
better than my measly 9.3 mpg but usually not more than 15 mpg or so. Over
the last ten years, I have tried many things to improve mileage, but if the
mileage goes up any, the power and/or driveability goes down.The opposite is
also true, so I've just sorta stuck with the happy meduium I'm at. If you're
going do any significant towing, you may want to find a V6 3rd member at the
very least. Towing puts added stresses on the diff and you'd be better off
with a stronger one.
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
==================================
David Eggleston
Glendale, CO
'84 X-Cab: supercharged 283 V-8/TH-350
toy283@mho.net
http://home.mho.net/toy283/
ICQ 11394206
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 11:56:49 EDT
From: DRM033@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Strength of Toyota Rear Axle
toy283@mho.net writes:
> The smaller ring gear is still the fail point. Haven't heard of the axle
> shafts themselves being a problem as they are comparable in size to Dana
> 60's.
Toyota and Dana 44 axle shafts are both right at 1.3" diameter. Dana 60
shafts are around 1.61" diameter...
David
DRM033@aol.com
http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota
Well, I weighed my 4 cylinder diff and the FJ80 high pinion 8.0" diff.
The former weighed in at 48lbs. The FJ80 diff which is similiar to a V6
diff weighed in at 65lbs. I weighed it without the electric motor
mechanism. So, from your numbers, you are saying the 9" weighs from 96
lbs (2x48 lbs) to 195 lbs (3x65 lbs). Have you actually weighed one? I
somehow doubt it weighs even 100 lbs.
I believe most people who believe the 8" can't handle the horsepower of
a V8 are the same people using the 4cyl diff and not the bigger V6 or
FJ80 diffs. Remember, people are using supercharged 3.4L motors with the
V6 locking 8.0" diff.
- --
Cheers,
Karl Bellve ICQ # 13956200
1985 4Runner SR5 TLCA# 7938
Old Man Emu lift, Toyota Electric Locker, TJM-13 Bumper, REP8000 winch,
Stout Equipment rear bumper, RS9000s, Persson Sway-Bar Disconnects, FJ40
vented rotors and IFS calipers
I'm comparing just the ring and pinion gears not the complete differential.
The 9" 4.11 ring gear is over two inches thick compared to less than one
inch for the 8" Toyota. Which would you think is stronger as a result? The
diameter of the pinion is almost four inches for the 9", once again
considerably larger than the 8" counterpart.
==================================
David Eggleston
Glendale, CO
'84 X-Cab: supercharged 283 V-8/TH-350
toy283@mho.net
http://home.mho.net/toy283/
ICQ 11394206
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:28:38 -0400
From: "Kevin A. Michael" <blkvoodoo@sprynet.com>
Subject: Bead Lock alternative
http://www.tireloc.com/index.htm
neat idea, but ..... check the next link for the actual US prices !
http://www.jdsoffroad.com/jdsoffroad/TireLoc.htm
Kevin Michael
'85 Runner, will look for bead locks instead.
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 20:52:54 -0400
From: "Porter, David A" <PorterDA@austpo.otis.com>
Subject: Re: Mityvac Use
I have used the Mityvac with great success. What you need to do is seal the
nipple thread and also the rubber nipple Mityvac fitting. To do this I use
PBR rubber grease. It's designed to brake component assembly, so it doesn't
contaminate the system. It's semi - fluid state allows the grease to easily
penetrate the nipple threads without undoing the thread more than 1/4 of a
turn.
Using the rubber grease I get no air bubbles at all in the Mityvac pot. It's
great! Especially if you want to replace the brake fluid which I don't think
anybody does as often as they should.
David ( Sydney Australia )
2.4 TD 84 4 Runner
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:35:02 -0800
From: Thom Singer <ntsqd@shocking.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with rear axle studs shearing off
Proper design requires that the drive take place btwn the two faces
clamped together. It isn't the shear strength of the flywheel bolts that
transfers the power, it's the friction btwn the end of the crank and the
flywheel created by the clamping load of the bolts. The bolts are in
tension only. The two dowel pins on the front hub should only be doing
location duty, not shear loading duty. If they are in shear, you're in
trouble. Even if the material used in the pins is 100,000 psi tensile
strength you'll shear them off at about 4,400 pounds force. I'm ignoring
the additional shear strength of the studs with that number, but again,
they should not be in shear either. (For those of you used to using SI
units, sorry for the stupid units.) The cone washers, as I understand
them, are not for shear loads, but rather an ingenious (infamous ?)
method for maintaining the tensile loading of the studs and insuring
that the nuts do not back off like those on Jeep hubs always do. They
possibly also will act as a wedge to increase the clamping force in the
event that a stud is slightly lose. I wouldn't rely on that though.
I'd venture that the two surfaces are buggered up and not seating flat.
Remove the studs and clean everything. Then take some valve lapping
compound and lap the drive plate to the hub. It may require several
different grits to speed up the process or you may have to start with a
file. You want 100 % contact. You can check for that with layout dye or
a Magic Marker. When you think you've got 100% contact, cover one
surface with the dye or marker and spin the other part against it. The
high points will rub off showing you the low points. Check both parts to
be sure. If you get a really smooth finish you shouldn't need any gasket
or goop btwn the parts. I'd use a little Hylomar just to be sure. Make
sure the studs, cone washers, and nuts are clean, and rust and burr
free. Assemble them with a little lubrication (anti-sieze seems a good
choice) and torque to the factory value.
Brian Wiencek wrote:
>
> > >I keep shearing the rear axle studs of, leaving me with no drive
at
> > >the rear end. It is running a rear ARB locker, with 33x12.5
BFG
> > >muddies.
> >
> > By the sounds of it you have the full floater axle. Even if you
had the ARB
> > on on the road that would not be sheering the studs. A few things
come to
> > mind, the rims , wheel nuts and the torque applied to the studs.
Fist check
> > that your wheelnuts match your rims. Generally the tapered nuts
are on the
> > steel rims but not allways. The flat ones are used to prevent the
alloy rims
> > deforming and cracking when the nuts are over tightened.
> <<SNIP>>
>
> I think he was talking he is shearing the small (6mm?) studs that hold
the
> drive plate to the 'hub' face. I am not familiar with this particular
> setup, but if it's at all like the front hubs then there are 2 hardened
> steel pins that provide the 'shear' strength - make sure that these are
> installed - they should take most of the torque, the studs help clamp
&
> hold the axle in.
- --
TS
Chico, CA
Ours go to eleven.
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:01:45 -0800
From: "ECVSlick" <ECVSlick@softcom.net>
Subject: RE: Front axle rebuild
I have two tips I can offer here.. You'll want to pull the axles out of the
birfields to properly clean & relube them both inside & out. They
come
apart real easy IF you use the right hammer / punch combo. The punch
material must be malleable (service manuals usually recommend brass).
However, what I've found works best is a 1 inch square aluminum rod about
a
foot long struck with a 2.5 lb deadblow (shot-filled / rubber faced) hammer,
it does the trick in 3 to 4 pops. You will want to chuck the axle in a vise
and rotate the joint where you can strike the flat of the bearing cage. I
hit it twice on one side and if it moves a little, the third shot removes
it. Otherwise, re-chuck the axle 180 degrees and hit it a couple more
times.
Kingpin bearing races are driven out through the opposite race opening.
There are two notches where you rest a punch against the inner side of the
race. I use a steel punch for this. Do NOT wail on them! Use many light
but firm taps alternating to the other notch ever couple of shots or so. It
will take a while but be patient, they come out easy UNLESS you get the race
cocked in the recess. If you choose Timken replacements, don't forget to
grind the "race notches" deeper as Timkens are a steeper taper than
OEM
bearings. The Timken race has less overhang and without the deeper notch,
the only way to remove the race is to weld a washer in the middle and pound
out from the other side.
Oh, one more thing, I like using a "Betty Crocker" type rubber
cake spatula
for filling the knuckles with grease (buy at least a gallon bucket!) after
the axles are back in. Use the small skinny one to work the grease all the
way behind the birfield to a touch over 3/4 capacity. Have LOTS of shop
rags on hand for this job.
Slick